Exploring Toxic Family Behaviors

Speaker 1: 0:06

What's up, guys? Welcome to Demo with Moe. I'm your host, monique Simmons. We'll be discussing dating, engaged and married objectives from a young Christian's perspective. Are you guys ready? Let's dive in. Hey, what's up, guys? Welcome to a new episode of Demo with Moe. I am your host, monique Simmons, and today we are going to be discussing toxic family behaviors that are normalized by society. Y'all, I'm excited about this conversation and we'll get a little more into it as we dive into this conversation today. But for this topic, I have invited special guest Ms Kirsten Lewis to join us. Anda little bit about Kirsten. She's a small town girl from Mississippi now living the city life in the state of Texas. She's a mom to a five-year-old diva. She's a rural carrier with the United States Postal Service. Outside of work and being a mom, she sings, writes, reads and getting into animation during her spare time. And a little background, a little special nugget Kirsten is also my step-sister. So I thought this conversation, this topic, would be perfect to dive into with my family because we're talking about family. But, kirsten, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. So glad to have you. Hey, y'all, hey, okay, kirsten, as you can see, I'm a little bit excited, okay, so I'm so glad to have you join me on today and, for you guys that are listening, kirsten is a part of the dating-engaged and married objectives podcast relationship community on Facebook A little plug there, so come on over there and join us. But she shared this in a group, so this is from the Mosaic Counseling and Wellness Group on Facebook. I always like to show the resources of where this information is coming from, so my listeners can go back and research where this information is coming from. Just so you know this is not coming from me, but you can go back and look this up for yourself. Again, this will be in the show notes so you guys will be able to go back and research and look this information up for yourself. But she shared this in a group about the seven toxic family behaviors that are normalized in society and when she shared it, I was like ooh, like mm. That was my exact reaction. Okay, kirsten, before we jump into exactly what each of the seven points were, how did you feel when you saw it Before you even shared it in the group, before we even started talking about it? How did you feel about it? I mean, I feel like I related to like 100% of what it was. Or I know someone who relates to 100% of what it was. Okay, I'm with you when I say I agree with each point. Sometimes I see stuff and you know you can relate or agree with some of it or majority of it, and you can talk to them. You know how people give you advice. You take what you agree with or what you relate to Right, you toss the race. But when I say I took all of this, I was like mm-hmm, yep, yep, that that right there, that right there, yeah, okay. So let's go ahead and jump into these points, okay. So the first one was that you should never disagree or question family members. Okay. So for those of you who are listening, with each point they went into it a little bit just for a little more context. So with this first point, it says disagreeing or having a different opinion can be done in a respectful way. People do not have to be the same to be respectful. Disagreeing is not a sign of disrespect, but dismissing someone's thoughts, feelings or reality is considered disrespect. So what you think about this? That you should never disagree or question family members I agree 100%. Yeah, not saying that. I agree with that. You should never do it Like. I agree with what they said, like when they went into detail. Right, why do you think families? Because this specifically said toxic family behaviors and one of the things I did not say and I do want to make sure I point this out for those of you who are listening they did say they wanted to make sure they differentiate it between toxic behaviors and toxic people, because they said having toxic behaviors doesn't necessarily make you a toxic person. And I love that so much because sometimes we can display toxic behaviors but we're not a toxic person, right, because sometimes we just will raise this way, we repeat the same behaviors that we saw. We do things that our family members saw us. We just do this is what we know. If you were raised in a family and this is what you've always saw you considered it to be normal. Until you're around healthy families or see healthy things being done in other families or around friends or in community, and you realize, oh, this is a little toxic what my people be doing, oh, and sometimes, like, they don't even realize that they're toxic, even until, like, a lot of people are saying the same thing about them, right, right, because it's like you've been in the same environment for so long. You step out and you got so many people telling you no, that ain't it, no, that's not going to work for me, and you have to just really sit back and be like, well, is it me, girl? I know it was me, but now that I have so many people in my ears saying, oh, it's you, it might be me. And sometimes people don't see that, and that's hard, because growing up, who are the people that you're usually around all the time? Your family. These are the people that you're around. So if you're always around your family and this is what your family does, it's considered normal. This is our norm, like. I think this is healthy, even if I don't, because we don't. We use terms now that we didn't have a clear understanding of growing up. But if we argued all the time growing up, I think every family argues. So when I go around people and they don't argue, what's wrong with them? Why they don't argue Right? Or is it healthy that they're not arguing? What are they hiding? What's going on? That's how I feel like. Or, for this point, when it says that you should never disagree or question family members when you go around people and they question their adult family members or the people that's older, in the older generation, you think, oh, they're real disrespectful. In this family they question grandma, grandma's so, and so Ain't he so, and so Big mama? Oh, they're real disrespectful. And you begin to learn as you get mature and healthier and you learn better. That's not disrespectful, right? Oh, all this time I've been told that's disrespectful. You just go along with everything, you don't question anything. As kids, we ask the question and they'll either ignore it or get out my face, or, because I said so, or just dismiss it like 100% no-transcript, like you don't get an answer at all. Okay, so let's jump into this second point. It says that you should tolerate harmful people because they are related to you. Oh, my goodness, okay. So they went into this one a little bit. They said mental or emotional harm and abuse should not be put aside to tolerate people. If someone has caused you harm, especially without taking accountability, you are valid to do what is best for you to protect your mental and emotional energy. Why do people or why are we taught in our families that we should be able to tolerate harmful people? Because they are related to us? You know that's just how your A&T is, that's just how your mama is, that's just how your cousin is, that's the biggest one. This is how they are and it's just. It's a cycle that they learn and that they never learn how to let go of. So they raise their kids the exact same way. Yeah, so what happens when? Because I think this is something that our generation especially and we've talked about this my past that started talking about this last Sunday. He was talking about the different generations and how each generation was different, the different the ways each generation was different, and I really think this started with the millennials and it's gotten better with each generation after that. That's just my personal opinion. That's no, that's no facts. That's just my personal opinion. But what do you think happens when generations of people, of children of families, start speaking up against this and making people be accountable for their actions? You're not gonna be able to be horn for a treatment any kind of way just because we're blood related. I mean it becomes dysfunctional, like you have family members that will go back to other family members and say, oh so, and so did this and said this, so now you got a family divided Just because someone's decided to finally speak up for this. Yeah, do you think? Because how do I say this? Cause they're gonna be people who are listening, who feel like they're gonna feel like they wanna speak up. They should speak up, but they don't wanna rock the boat, they don't want their families to be divided. But I personally feel, though I personally feel like when we don't speak up, when people are not held accountable and we continue to let this go on, because it's gonna continue to happen generation to generation, cause you said it when we don't say anything, it's passed down, it's don't we teach our children this is okay, they can act like this and you don't have to say anything, and that's just what's gonna keep happening from generation to generation. So, even though we're not physically divided, we still come together, we still put on and act like everything's okay. I think we're still divided, we come together, but then we talk about each other. Exactly, we're really not together, right? That's what we do, and for me, that's not okay, and I don't wanna teach my children that that's not okay at all. That's not something that I'm not raising my daughter like it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I agree with that At all. Let me ask you this from a mom's perspective, as a parent's perspective and a child, a daughter's perspective, of wanting to do something different. And were you the first cause I don't wanna make an assumption Were you the first in your family, far as a generation, to want to do it differently? I would say, speaking like my immediate family, yes, that's what I mean. Far as your generation, I would say yes, okay, yes. And I'm asking you that because that's gonna fall into my next question, cause I didn't wanna make an assumption before I ask you this next question. How does that feel? Is that hard? Is it lonely? How does that feel? It's not lonely, I would say it's kinda hard. It's not just necessarily all the way hard. It's kinda hard because I don't know, I honestly don't know. Okay, what helps it not be lonely? What makes it easier for you? Do you have support? I do have support, okay, I do have support, yes, okay. And the reason I'm asking you this is because most people, especially when you're that first generation and this is why I'm asking you, cause usually when you're that first generation to do something different in your family, there's gonna be a lot of pushback because you're doing something different from everybody else. Why are you trying to come in here and switch things up from the way they've always been? We've been doing it like this, letting people be the way they've been, not holding people accountable. Why are you trying to come in and be all emotionally healthy, like who you think you are? And that can be hard. That can be hard to wanna raise your child differently, cause why do you Now that you said I'm sorry to cut you out, oh, you're fine I can give an example. I tried to raise Kyler. It's my daughter's name. I tried to raise Kyler, I tried to be a gentle parent and you know adults like the older generation, they don't necessarily know what gentle parenting is. So if my daughter says something like she, I allow her to express herself. So she says something that goes against what I said, like, Like you said. They'll look at it like, oh, that's disrespectful. You need to say something, you need to, you need to pop her or cause. You know, that's, that's the kind, that's the kind of family that I grew up around. Yeah, so that's an example gentle parenting. That's a real, good example. Yeah, and that's real. And that's why I ask you and it don't always have to be to an extreme, and when I'm saying it, I'm not even saying it's just to you, but for those who will be listening back to this later, because and I think even from personal experience when you're doing something in your family, in your community, around people that you grew up with, you had relationship with, when you're trying to do something completely different from everybody else and raise your children different and do your family different, it can be hard and it can't get lonely. Sometimes, if you feel like you're not conforming to what everybody else wants you to do and you're trying to, you're trying to do something completely different and you're not going along with everybody else, it can get hard, it can't get hard. I'm not gonna lie, it can't get hard. Yeah, it really can. Okay. So the next one, number three, says lacking boundaries or having a free pass to cross boundaries. It says boundaries are boundaries, even if someone is family. There are misconceptions that there are exceptions for family members and, while those boundaries may look different, mental, physical and emotional energy is important to take care of with your family too, okay. So why do you think, when it comes to family, they can think they get a free pass or they don't have any boundaries when it comes to you or that they can just cross your boundaries because we're family. Because I think with family members, they don't see you as an individual person. They see you as, oh, that's my cousin, that's my sister, that's my brother, that's my uncle, that's my mama. Yeah, they don't see you as you as a person, they see you as family. So they feel like, oh, that's my family member. I mean, we still gonna be family at the end of the day, so that allows them to do what they wanna do. When it comes to you as a person, girl, that's good right there, I agree. I agree 100% not being seen as an individual, just seeing their relationship. But I am still a person. I am still a human being. I still have needs and I need you to respect it. I need you to respect that I love you, but I need you to also respect that I have batteries, just like anybody else. Okay. Number four it says ooh, girl, okay, which one was this? Expecting children to be responsible for their parents' needs. It says many children feel pressure to fix their parents' problems, be a step in marriage therapist, be their shoulder to cry on, take care of their needs, though parents' caretakers also have their own struggles. Children are not responsible for caretaking or fixing. I agree, I've never experienced that personally, but I've watched other family members experience that. Yeah, and I don't agree with it at all. Ooh girl, that's the same as making children responsible for raising other children. Okay, to me that goes hand in hand and that's what I was getting ready to say. That's a hand in hand thing because that's taking care of parents' needs when children have to raise their siblings Like. I've never understood that. I mean, it's one thing for your children to kind of step in for a minute because you may have to take a call or fix dinner right quick, but for you to go out and live your life and your children are having to raise your other kids and be responsible to get them ready for school and cook them dinner and get their baths and literally be a mini parent. And then one day, when they grow up so fast, yeah Well, you ain't grown, hold on now. You can't expect me, you can't give me the responsibilities of an adult and at the same time tell me I'm not grown, Hold on now, right, the math ain't mathin' Right. And then you have parents that confide in their children, telling them adult business and it's not about being a marriage therapist, like, why do your kids know your relationship problems and what's going on between you and your spouse or you and your partner? Like, hold on, like it's a lie, it's a lie, it's a lie. Now I can see. If it was an adult child, that's different. But when they baby babies yeah, see, I don't need to be knowing about nothing. You have going on as an adult. Yeah, yeah, okay, these are. I mean, these are just good, these are really good, they really are and these are, is it said, toxic behaviors. And it's sad because they again they said these are normalized by society. Like these things have became normal in our society, like they are happening more often than they're not happening. Okay. The fifth point says, okay, parents keeping secrets or expecting children to listen, because I see it so, ooh, they put these two together, but they literally could have stood alone by themselves. Like this could have been two points. It really could have the people keeping the parents keeping secrets. I automatically thought about Kurt Franklin's documentary. That's automatically where my mind went. And you know what? I still never watched it. You, I thought you were going to watch it. I haven't. I haven't, girl, I'm not. I have to prepare my mind to watch something traumatic, and it's definitely it. So I'm not even finna rush you to go watch it. Yeah, I'm not even. Yeah, that's a whole book of bearing itself. I just got done unpacking it with my therapist last week. So, yeah, yeah, i'ma leave that where it's at. But parents keeping secrets what's your thoughts on that? That's damaging, it's really damaging and I don't understand it. Like for what Cause you hear something from me for so long? And I have to find out when I'm 47, 53 girl, girl, like what? But I did see something about that Kirk Franklin documentary. Was it his mom? Like his dad lived right down the street from them or something, and his mom kept that away from him, like what? She denied their relationship or what was it? So the mom there, bro, she told him that another man was his dad and the guy ended up dying some years ago. Kirk didn't have a relationship with that man. He ended. That man ended up dying, thinking Kirk hated him. Kirk went and saw him on his deathbed and basically was like you was never there for me, blah, blah, blah. You know the spiel. And that man ended up dying, think Kirk hated him. Come to find out that man was never Kirk's dad. Okay, so it was a funeral for one of Kirk's aunts and the man who really was his biological father was at that funeral. But this man had no idea about Kirk. He never knew about Kirk at all. But rumors start going around because people were saying that the man looked exactly like Kirk. The man and Kirk's mom there were used to date back when they were teenagers. So people start saying he could be Kirk's dad. So Kirk's mom ended up calling Kirk, leaving him a voicemail, because Kirk and his mom didn't have a relationship. He hadn't talked to her in over 20 years. So she left him a voicemail and was like I'm sure you've probably heard about the rumors. I want to let you know this is not true. Blah, blah, blah. I don't even know why she said, I don't even know why she did it, but she left his voicemail saying it wasn't true. Well, the guy who ends up being his biological dad from what I saw and what was portrayed on a documentary, he seemed like a really good dude. The guy called was like I have no idea what's going on, but these rumors going on. I'm going to see my doctor, I'm gonna do a DNA test. I'm gonna have it sent to your doctor. You can do whatever you want with the results. You know it's totally up to you. If you want to look at it, don't look at it. But I want you to know. Had no idea about any of these. You know you can do whatever you will with it. Kirk's doctor called him, give, gives him the results 99.99999. This is your file. Yes, he goes to see his mom. Well, he goes to see the dad first. He goes because the dad still don't know about any of this, because he wanted Kirk to have all the information. He didn't want to know anything. He literally wanted the ball to be in Kirk's court, like for Kirk to do whatever he wanted to do with it, which I love so much. He totally respected Kirk's decision to do whatever he wanted to do first. So he didn't know anything. Kirk went and saw him first, gave him the envelope with the results. He saw the results. You could tell from this man's response to he had no clue, no clue. He broke down boohoo and him and Kirk hook. He kept on apologizing to Kirk. He said he was so sorry he had no clue. I mean, he had no clue. He said if I would have known, I would have been there for you all of this. So then Kirk goes to see the mama the same day because he said I don't want it to be where it's no days left, where it could be in a mess where people going around saying stuff I want to go talk to her right now. So he goes to see the mama. The mama in a T it things these out. So the mama say this a lot and I'm leaving a whole bunch of stuff out. But I'm trying to give you just what happened. The mama says this is a lot. The DNA took DNA results. Not true. There's no way this can be true. I was so mad. I was so mad. She said this is not true. Kirk was like what these are DNA results? It's 99.99 that he is my father. Mama said no, so Kirk being Kirk, you want to go do the DNA results again. You can go like we all can be there, all of us can go. Mama agrees to that. They go do the results again. Come back. The same thing. They all sitting around like this office table together, like in a conference room, get the results back. It's a the same thing. She was like I don't know what was going on with these kids, but it ain't true. And the man I cannot believe that man like you could tell he was so mature he won't let anything that she was saying get to him like this is basically what we talking about the toxic family behavior. She was a toxic family on one side. He was the healthy, emotional person on the other side. Like you can tell the difference. You can tell the difference looking at this table. She over here showing out to my I don't know what this is, this is not true. And he just he, his dad didn't say anything negative, like he didn't let one negative word come out his mouth that whole time. He said Kirk, I respect whatever you want to do with this. He said I'm not gonna force you. If you want to have a relationship with me, I would love to have a relationship with you if. But I'm a go at your pace, I'm a follow your lead. Like he was so respectful of everything in Kirk wanted. On the other hand, his mama, his mama said, uh-uh, this ain't true. But Kirk told her if you can't give me this, I cannot have a relationship with you. I'm just gonna tell you right now if you can't be honest with me and give me this. I can't go forward with a relationship with you and she won't give it to him. She left. It was a mess, that was a deal. Yeah, it's damaging this. There's guilty behavior. I'm like you gonna let this secret keep you from a relationship with your son. You haven't had a relationship with him over 20 years and you gonna let this secret baby. The world has already seen it's out there now like the damage is done. The test is here. It ain't nothing else to hide. The man is sitting right here. We know who the father is. We already know you slept around. What else is there? Usually people are holding on to the secrets because they don't want the information out there. The information is out there. Why would you still let this secret keep you from having a relationship with your son? The damage is now done. Kirk wants to have a relationship with his mom. Why would you let this hinder you? But she couldn't. She could, she could not let it go. Some people would rather just hold on to a lie and take it to that grave. Good, how some people are, and I don't. I don't understand it because you damaging your own flesh and blood like you, not sit, like I said, you not seeing your son as an individual person who has feelings. You can see that he's emotional about it. You can see that he's upset, he's frustrated, he's all of these things and you feel you still won't say that girl, won't tell him the truth. You were about to take this, take this truth to your grave. That's a mean, a broken relationship between you and your child. Right, and it was what was so crazy to me. I could not round my mind around. He not asking you for no details. All he want you to say acknowledges this. Results are true. That's it. All you got to say is yes, that's yes. These results, yes, they are true. A lot of times, a lot of times, all they really do got to do is say yes or no. That's all you got to give somebody, that's all. It either happened or didn't happen. Yes or no, girl, and like you said, that could be a whole. That could be a whole topic within itself Family secrets, man, man that could be a whole, just a whole episode by itself, because they can get deep. Who you tell me? They can go really deep. They can go really deep, and they can go really deep. And the shame around it, the shame Girl. Okay, then the second part of this Because I said so, expecting children to listen. Because I said so, I've never understood the because I said so. I've never understood the because I said so. I've never understood the because I said so Sometimes. Sometimes it's a parent, you're in a rush or you just don't have time to explain yourself. I get there are times where, because I said so Is needed, but a lot of times, because I said so is just, I feel, right, a cop out for me not to explain myself. I don't want to explain myself. Who wants to? Because I said I don't want to. Because I said so, talk to me, me even. That's why, like you said, even myself as a parent, sometimes I'll find myself She'll ask me something and I'll be like, because I said so, she can ask me. But mom, why do I have to clean up? And then my immediate response as a parent is I have to redirect myself. Yeah, this is not, this is not how I want to raise her. Because I said so. I want to give her an explanation as to why she has to clean up, yeah, and why it's a benefit for both of us Versus just me as a mom and this missing her as my child. I love that Zoe is now. I love that you listen to. Zoe is three now, but Zoe is in the stage now it is, if I'm being completely honest, it is driving me crazy. I'm just going to be completely honest. It is driving me straight crazy. But she in this stage, she's in this stage now where she's asking why? But everything, and it don't matter what. It is like we could be, we could be in a car and I could be turning left and I may slow down a little bit. Why you slow down? It's a car in front of me. Why? Because they were there? Why I don't know, or I'm watching my hands. Why Because they're dirty? Why Because I was getting ready to cook and I just came in the house and I was like why? Why Because I just got home? Why Because I went to the store? Why, and it's like what? But she's inquisitive, but she's just like a brother and my son is the same way, but it's like it's driving me crazy. But I love that she's like that, but at the same time Is driving me crazy, because sometimes I just don't want to answer those questions. I don't want to say that I'm not doing it. I need to say it. I'm not going to say it to myself, but I love that she's that way, because she's not just going to go along with everything, she's going to need you to explain it to her and give her a reason. And I love that because when she gets out into the world she's going to be like that with other people, like don't just tell me anything, don't just do anything with me. Right, explain this to me. Why are we doing this Exactly? I'm going to ask you a few questions All throughout the day, but I think Now she kind of toned it down a little bit. With every Everything I say, she say why, what's up? We in when have? But see me, I have those moments too, like, oh my God, I do not feel like talking about this today. I don't feel like explaining myself and sometimes I will catch myself saying, because I said so, but then I have to redirect myself yeah, same, same, same, same, same. But she is the exact same way. So I can relate to that. Okay. So the next point, number six. It says that your family always knows what is best for you. Know you better than you know yourself, oh my God. And look, okay, I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that, I'm going to say that. And look, okay, I'm going to say this before I get, because they, they go to explain this a little bit better. I'm going to be honest. I have said this to my children I know you better than you know yourself. Oh, my goodness, I feel a little guilty because that is not true. I don't know them better than they know they. No, no, it's not true. It is not true. Okay, I just think that People go deeper than others, or made know you at the level they want to, but that doesn't take away your autonomy. People can know you, but no one else knows your thoughts, feelings and values Like you do, okay, so what do you think about this? One Cause families Creamy, especially parents. Parents are guilty. I told y'all, I just professed this, confess of this. Parents have this bad, especially when you become that like adult age, where you're an adult but you're really not an adult because you still kind of trying to figure it out. Parents are good at saying I know what's best for you, you can know. But you really don't. You really you wanna know what's best for me. That's your desire, you really want, cause you really don't want me to fall, you don't want me to bump my head. Parents don't really know the right way of communicating sometimes, of just being honest about I really don't know what I'm doing, but I just don't want you to hurt yourself. I just love you so much I want you to figure it out. But I want you to figure it out without going out there and busting your head wide open, basically saying I want you to do what I want you to do, that's what you wanna do. But I want you to do, yes, that part. But they fix it up and say I know what's best for you, right, I know you better than you know yourself. That's the biggest one. That's the biggest one, and that is a hard pill to swallow. That can be a toxic behavior, because that is controlling. I think a lot of us are guilty of that. Yeah, a lot of us are guilty of that. Yeah, and don't get me wrong, some of us can have the best of intentions and we can have right motives, but at the same time, just as they said, we have to be able to have autonomy over our own lives. Whether I bump my head or not, that's my right to do. I have to be able to do that. Our family members have to be able to do that. No one should be able to have control over anyone's life. No one knows what's best for you. No one knows you better than you know yourself. Just like this says, no one else knows your thoughts, feelings and values. You don't know what I'm thinking. You don't know how I'm feeling. You don't know what my values about life is. You don't know what I really desire and what really my passions are, what really gets me excited about life. You don't really know those things about me Because parents and other family members they never really ask those questions. No, no, they never really. I'm gonna say they never really did ask those questions and I'm just like do you really know me, though? No, like do you? If you're honest for me, mm-mm? And don't get me wrong I will say there are some parents out there, some family members, who may ask those questions because they, you know, they did the work. You know, because times have changed, things are different. Some people do come from families like that, but even with that, though you don't know everything that's going on in somebody's head. People don't always communicate everything. You know, sometimes I do what we once wanted changes. Sometimes we get in relationships with people and what we thought we wanted, we realized that ain't what we want anymore, right? So nobody really knows us like we know us. Yeah, I agree, Okay, so, yeah, they ended this last one with a bang. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna just go ahead and forego you. They ended this last one with a bang, number seven, not addressing family issues or conflict and pretending like everything is quote unquote. Okay, okay, woo, child Kirsten, I'm gonna let you touch on this one first. What's your thought, sis? What's your thought, sis? I mean that one can go hand in hand with the family members keeping secrets? Yeah, that can go hand in hand with them. Yeah, that's what they were For sure. Oh, that is a deep one. Okay, let me say it y'all. What do you see? Because it talks about it a little bit. Okay, so it says there is absolutely a time and place to address family conflict, but shoving it under the rug can lead to more issues and a lack of overall trust. This creates an environment that feels inauthentic and unsafe, setting the tone that feelings don't matter. This can model to children unhealthy methods of conflict resolution in their future relationships. Girl, I'm just gonna let my listeners know right now I will be doing a follow up podcast episode on just this topic alone, because it's a deep like this can go from zero to 100. I used to think something was wrong with me. Being completely honest, I really used to think something was wrong with me because family was good at not addressing issues and conflict Stuff would happen. Fires would go off, nobody would say none. And I'm looking around like don't, nobody see these fires but me, like so nobody gonna say none, nobody gonna address it, and I would bring it up or say something. And you know it's just all hell brogues. Why is Monique bringing this up? Why is Nikkie? Because for my listeners y'all know I've mentioned this before my family calls me Nikkie. Why is Nikkie talking about this stuff? Why is Nikkie bringing this stuff up? You know I really used to think something is wrong with me, like why do I care so much about stuff that nobody else seems to care about? Like it's something legit wrong with me, but I have learned from going to therapy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me. I am not the issue. This is healthy. I have learned from my individual therapy and also in my couples therapy that I don't like ignoring or not addressing issues. I like to deal with conflict head on. I don't like not addressing problems. I don't like not. I don't like sweeping stuff under the rug and acting like it didn't happen and not addressing elephants in the room that that it bothers me. I don't like having unaddressed problems in relationships, because when I'm in relationship with people, even with family, I like to have a good relationship with people. I don't like to pretend and act like everything is everything is okay when it's not. That is so toxic and dysfunctional and unhealthy. Like how do y'all go day to day like that? I cannot do it, I just cannot. I refuse to do it. So I would rather this is just me now. I would rather not put myself in environments where I have to do that. If we're not going to address it, if we're not going to talk about it, if we're not going to deal with it, if we're going to just act like it's not, it's not a problem, it's not an issue, I'm just not going to put myself in the environment. That's just. That's just where I, where I am in life and we're going to address it and talk about it and deal with it, because I'm all for it and people have to realize addressing issues don't have to be a problem, like it doesn't have to be a bad thing, like we're just acknowledging something is off, something is wrong. Let's talk about it and fix it so things can be good between us. That's it. So if we're going to act like everything is okay when we all know everything is not okay, I'm just not going to put my stuff in the environment. That's just where I am in life. So, yeah, okay. But yeah, I'm telling you right now I'm going to do a follow up episode on just this point right here. This is a whole book of Bear by by itself, because it can be with family members, it can be with friends, yeah, it can be with your partner. This could be with anybody. This doesn't necessarily retain to family members. No, no, why do you think it is easier for people to not address issues of conflict? I was. I must speak from personal experience. I would say to avoid, just to avoid having to having to talk about it, to avoid having to either be the one that's wrong, or I mean, it's just easier not to say anything Sometimes, just to avoid the conflict, just to avoid the conversation is still, yeah, because I'm not a confrontational person and sometimes, from personal experience, I would not say anything to avoid the drama that comes along with saying something. Do you think, or why do you think would be a better question? Why do you think it always has to be drama? I guess it just depends on the situation, because some people you don't know what their reaction is going to be. Yeah, I don't know if you're going to react to this. Okay, I don't know if you're going to react in a way that I've never seen you react. And then I'm taking a back bite and now I'm feeling some type of way I don't want it to be where. Okay, we bringing up this issue, but now we got other issues that we don't, we didn't even know about, just because we talking about. But what happens when you don't talk about the issue? Did that mean you still don't have those issues just because you didn't talk about them? No, they don't mean the issue. So now, on top of that, we still have the issues that we don't talk about and now we don't ever get to a resolve, so nothing changes, and now we're probably going to avoid each other because we know we got issues that we ain't talking about. So now our relationship is heard, we really could be having a good relationship and we probably missing each other. It's just or either we faking it, yeah, and we pretending, and I can't do it, we both thinking like to ourselves, like this not working, but we not going to say, and then so I've been there before, like I've had that experience for myself, and that's not good. It's not good, it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good Like I will back myself into a corner, see, see, and I am at the age of almost 30. I am just now learning how to let that behavior go, because I don't like. I don't like it, even though I'm not confrontational. If I have an issue, I'm going to say something and sometimes I can come off. Another person would feel like I'm coming off as aggressive Because for so long I didn't say anything and now it's something that I can't tolerate. I'm coming off too strong. Yeah, I'm still learning. So that's why I can relate to this, this particular topic, just along by itself, because that's something that I experienced. I love it, but the more you do it, the better you'll get at it, and that's the same for me, because I haven't. I haven't always been this, because I don't. I don't like confrontation either. I hate it. I mean, I really I really don't. But also I don't like having unresolved issues. I don't like pretending that everything is okay when it's not. I dislike that more than I like this like confrontation. So I would rather confront the issue than pretend like everything is okay when it's not or avoid in one another. I don't like that because I the people in my life that I have relationships with I love too much to avoid them or act like everything is okay when it's not. I had a girlfriend who we had conflict with I don't even know it was within the last year. Within the last year and this is a friend we've never had issues like never. But we had some conflict come up and it was because of some other stuff going on in our lives and I'm like no, we're going to deal with this. You're too important to me. We ain't, we're not. We're not finna, pretend we're not finna, put this off. We, uh-uh, uh-uh. No, ma'am, we're going to sit down face to face and we're going to talk about this and we sit down. We had dinner and for a minute and she said this herself and this is the only reason that I'm sharing this, that I'm going to go into too many details Before a minute. There she tried to kind of she went into other stuff because she didn't really want to talk about the issue at hand and I'm like let's talk about this, let's address this. That's me, I'm her, I'm her. No, no, no, let's pull it out of me. That's why I said I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning. That's why I said I'm learning, that's me. But when you have people in your life that matter to you, you'll do that work. But you got some people. They're not willing to do that, some friends. They would have had that conflict and they would have just cut it off. I'm going to cut you out. You know people good for saying that now I cut you out. I'm not about that life. I'm not about that life. I'm not about that life. I invested, we've invested too much into each other, just for a little conflict, a little issue, a little bump in the road, to let a relationship dissolve over a little bump in the road, girl not. And then we ended up, even after dinner, we ended up having a Zoom call and talk for hours about things that has happened over the last year, about changes and what led us to this point and how much we mean to each other, how much we've invested and how much we love each other, and all of that and fix the. And nothing has changed between us. Nothing, it's just like that conflict has never happened. That's why I can't even remember when it happened. It may have even been, it may be almost over a year, I don't even know. But that's the point that I'm trying to make. Like that I don't even remember. Like that's how unimportant and finite that is to me. But if I wasn't willing to address that, can you imagine what our friendship would be right now? It could have been over. You know something that simple because that's how simple it was, because I don't even remember it but something that simple could have ended a friendship that meant that much to me. And that's what happens all the time. People and families aren't even talking to each other because people want to dress up, they want to talk about stuff. Yeah, and I believe it. I have family members right now that I'm not talking to, and it's not by choice, it's not because I don't want to talk to them, but it's because they're not willing to talk about the hard stuff and I just I can't do that. I'm turning 35 next month and I'm just. It was a time in my life I would pretend. I would pretend like everything was okay, I would go along with this stuff. I'm not there anymore. It's like you say, you're getting ready to turn 30 and you're trying to unlearn some stuff and you're learning how to confront some stuff. That's exactly how I was. I was like, monique, is this how you're going to continue to live your life? Right? I looked myself in the mirror. I couldn't do it anymore. I really couldn't do it anymore. Like, even though it's family that I love, like legit, I love them, but I could not do that anymore. So, yes, thank you so much for joining me. I have enjoyed. I have enjoyed you like for real. It doesn't even feel like an interview to me, like I felt like we were just on the phone, on the phone talking about family. Catch it up. Yes, for real. And we really need to do this. We need to do this more often. I agree, I agree. Yeah, let me not say we, I'm going to speak for me. I let family stuff get in the way of us building our own relationships, but I would love for us to do this. I can agree. I can agree with that, yeah, but thank you so much. Is there anything you want to say to the listeners before you leave? I would say y'all follow Demo with Mo because she is is relatable to everybody and y'all want to be here for this podcast, for these topics, for these conversations, so you can go have the conversations with your family members or your friends. Thank you so much, kirsten. I really appreciate you and I haven't you with you. I have too. Thank you for having me. Thank you and for my listeners. Thank you guys so much for rocking with me. I appreciate you guys. I hope you guys enjoyed our combo on tonight. Remember I love you, but God loves you guys so much more. I'll see you next week. Bye, bye. I hope you guys have enjoyed. Follow me on Facebook at Demo with Mo. If you have any questions you would like answered here, live on my podcast, email them to me at demo with mo at gmailcom. Bye.